Since this Saturday isn't the real Ard Boyz for me (playing in the "consolation" tournament here.) I though I would theory out a list in public to show how I rationalize a list, and look for any comments towards my method.
Basically, I look for three elements in a list:
1) Good anti-tank
2) Good Long Range Shooting
3) A decent assault element or two (or three)
After playtesting Saturday, I settled on a "core" of my list:
10-man Tactical Squad w/ Meltagun, Lascannon, Powerweapon in Assault Cannon Razorback = 290
10-man Tactical Squad w/ Meltagun, Lascannon, Powerweapon in Assault Cannon Razorback = 290
Predator w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Dozerblade = 140
Predator w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Dozerblade = 140
Stormraven w/ Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multimelta, Hurricane Bolters, Extra Armor = 245
The troops are a little pricey, but there is something to be said with having 7 Lascannons on the table. I found that Blood Angels really need decent anti-tank at range, to help disrupt the enemy enough to fight on their terms. People may disagree but Lascannons are important still...
So, that starts me off at 1105 with no HQs just yet.
I am a little light on anti-infantry, and I have two Heavy Flamer Razorbacks dieing to be used. Assault Marines are a great way to get two more Razorbacks (and two more scoring units) on the table. Since I get a discount, and I am already paying a premium for the Tactical Squads Razorbacks, I think it is time for a split.
So now my scoring "core" is:
10-man Tactical Squad w/ Meltagun, Lascannon, Powerweapon in Heavy Flamer Razorback = 255
10-man Tactical Squad w/ Meltagun, Lascannon, Powerweapon in Heavy Flamer Razorback = 255
5-man Assault Squad w/ Flamer, Powerweapon in Assault Cannon Razorback = 175
5-man Assault Squad w/ Flamer, Powerweapon in Assault Cannon Razorback = 175
That is only 860 in a 2500 point list, and a potential of 6 scoring units.
Now I am at 1385 for all the troops, and the heavy support section.
Still no HQ though. My list is tracking shooty, so I think it's time to add some assault elements. Most of the Blood Angel Characters are assault characters, save regular Tycho (which would be my choice is a shooty from hell list). I am not a big fan of Mephiston, though he is a beast, I get screwed against Eldar and Space Wolves. The Sanguinor is a favorite of mine, but he doesn't really "gel" with the core of this list, most of my sergeants are going to be in transports most of the game, so his blessing will be lost.
No, I think we need Dante. If I include Powers in my list, I can limit some of the other armies defense, and some "hidden" characters suffer from his rule.
So if I include Dante, what support do I give him? I think his best support is squad with Jump Packs to capitalize on his special ability. I have plenty of scoring units, so I don't need troops sanguinary guard (and Death Company may need a place...) so I am going with Honor Guard, mainly for their "free" sanguinary priest that can't be targeted.
So my typical build for Honor Guard have been refined to this:
5 Honor Guard w/ Jump Packs, Sanguinary Novitiate, 2 Lightning Claw/ Storm Shield, 2 Meltaguns = 235
To further add to the "fun", I like to include a second HQ in a Jump Pack Librarian, as far as powers go, how about "Unleash Rage" to boast Dante and the Honor Guard, and "Blood Lance" to further the tank firepower.
Protip: Blood Lance doesn't have a target so you can draw a line in another direction then what the unit actually fires at.
So this combo costs a mighty 585. A little much, but worth it.
That puts us at 1970. A little close to our "ceiling".
I feel like another assault element is needed, plus I need something in that Stormraven.
I haven't touched the elites yet, and I also have Death Company as an option. Elites can go quickly, and I think at this point level, I need some Sanguinary Guard to buff the amount of probably 5 man squads my list has. Terminators seem fun, but I think I already have the "quality" assault unit in the Honor Guard.
Basically, it comes down to whether I want to include Corbulo. Corbulo and 2 cheap Sanguinary Guard puts me at 2175. A little tight to fit the Stormraven element (which I want to be an assault element and a Dreadnought).
To hell with it, they are in the list.
325 left...
Death Company would be nice, but I can't field them without a Chaplain, and that would burn the rest of my points.
But of course I feel the same way towards Terminators.
Since the Dreadnought is going to be a Blood Talons Dreadnought, it comes down to Furioso versus Death Company.
I think the Death Company Dreadnought is more important in this equation, namely for it's ability to fleet off the Stormraven. Being in the transport prevents rage from being a liability, and in this equation more reliable delivery matters.
Making that choice will put me over, as I don't feel comfortable fielding the Death Company outside of this configuration:
Chaplain = 100
8-man Death Company w/ Thunderhammer, 2 Power weapons, 5 Bolters = 220
Death Company Dreadnought w/ Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer = 135
Total = 455
which puts me over by 130. I think Corbulo is a luxury and should be dropped.
So that is 25 over. Hmmm....
There isn't anything I really want to drop. So making the sacrifice to make this list work is going to be a hard decision.
Let's add it up again for good measure:
Dante = 225
Librarian w/ Unleash Rage, Blood Lance, Jump Pack = 125
5 Honor Guard w/ Jump Packs, Sanguinary Novitiate, 2 Lightning Claw/ Storm Shield, 2 Meltaguns = 235
2 Sanguinary Priests = 100
Chaplain = 100
8-man Death Company w/ Thunderhammer, 2 Power weapons, 5 Bolters = 220
Death Company Dreadnought w/ Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer = 135
10-man Tactical Squad w/ Meltagun, Lascannon, Powerweapon in Heavy Flamer Razorback = 255
10-man Tactical Squad w/ Meltagun, Lascannon, Powerweapon in Heavy Flamer Razorback = 255
5-man Assault Squad w/ Flamer, Powerweapon in Assault Cannon Razorback = 175
5-man Assault Squad w/ Flamer, Powerweapon in Assault Cannon Razorback = 175
Predator w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Dozerblade = 140
Predator w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Dozerblade = 140
Stormraven w/ Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multimelta, Hurricane Bolters, Extra Armor = 245
Total = 2525
Let's nickle and dime this a little.
What if we swap the Power Weapons on the Tactical Sergents to Combi-weapons. Puts basically another Melta in that squad and cuts 10 points.
Next up, lets drop the dozer blades from the Predators, I think that matter more on the Baals.
So 20 points saved. 5 points left to drop. I will drop a meltagun from the Honor Guard. Hurts, but between Dante's pistol and Blood Lance, it isn't absolutley necessary. Since I have plenty of shooty elements, I may need some searchlights for Dawn of War. 5 searchlights on 5 tanks puts me at exactly 2500.
So here is the final list:
-HQ-
Dante = 225
Librarian w/ Unleash Rage, Blood Lance, Jump Pack = 125
5 Honor Guard w/ Jump Packs, Sanguinary Novitiate, 2 Lightning Claw/ Storm Shield, Meltagun = 225
-Elites-
2 Sanguinary Priests = 100
Chaplain = 100
-Troops-
8-man Death Company w/ Thunderhammer, 2 Power weapons, 5 Bolters = 220
Death Company Dreadnought w/ Blood Talons, Heavy Flamer = 135
10-man Tactical Squad w/ Meltagun, Lascannon, Combi-melta in Heavy Flamer Razorback = 250
10-man Tactical Squad w/ Meltagun, Lascannon, Combi-melta in Heavy Flamer Razorback = 250
5-man Assault Squad w/ Flamer, Powerweapon in Assault Cannon Razorback, Searchlight = 176
5-man Assault Squad w/ Flamer, Powerweapon in Assault Cannon Razorback, Searchlight = 176
-Heavy Support-
Predator w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Searchlight= 136
Predator w/ Autocannon, Lascannon Sponsons, Searchlight= 136
Stormraven w/ Twin-linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multimelta, Hurricane Bolters, Extra Armor, Searchlight = 246
Total = 2500
Let's see how it does. Thoughts?
Are you DSing the Dante/Honor Guard, or are you screening them with Razorbacks? What will you do against Dreads, etc that assault that unit? I prefer to take no specials at all. Too many points are invested in them. The hit and run is nice, but fickle. I'd prefer a Reclusiarch to Dante, and use the points savings to add powerfists/thunderhammers to the Honor Guard. Litanies of Blood can't be Runed, Hooded, or Shadow of the Warped away from you.
ReplyDelete"Are you DSing the Dante/Honor Guard, or are you screening them with Razorbacks?"
ReplyDeleteDepends on the enemy, if there is a scary enough tank, or series of tanks, then I deep strike, I screen if my opponent has very little shooting.
"What will you do against Dreads, etc that assault that unit?"
That is rarely an issue, because if Dreads are in range of this squad, it it my first priority to take them out.
If a Dread does hit me I always have Hit and Run as a way to get out of it on my terms, or I hit them with another assault unit.
"I prefer to take no specials at all. Too many points are invested in them."
Special are the spice of life. I find that if the core of your list is solid, specials add that little extra buff to put you over the top.
"The hit and run is nice, but fickle."
Dante is Initiative 6 standing still, it might as well be an autopass.
"prefer a Reclusiarch to Dante, and use the points savings to add powerfists/thunderhammers to the Honor Guard. Litanies of Blood can't be Runed, Hooded, or Shadow of the Warped away from you."
I agree, again, it depends on whom you face, but I believe that every Blood Angel list needs at least one instance of Blood Lance to deal with IG. (And you know the type of players I regularly game with.)
You where the one that qualified for the Ard Boys, I should be taking your advice. :)
I happened to luck out, as it was a sparsely populated tournament with a lot of the local power players going elsewhere. I had luck on my side in the first game against a well practiced opponent, drew against a player returning from 3rd edition, and got a great draw against my third opponent (BA vs Mech guard). I don't know that I would have done so well against Carter, Erich, etc. FL players are a breed apart.
ReplyDeleteWell, besides what happened at the store I originally was supposed to game at, I had a by the first round, faced a Necron player who castled that I almost (and should have) phased out, and then I took my mostly Mech army against 60 BA assault marines, all with Meltaguns, and 9 MM attack bikes, if I wasn't massacred, I would have won that game because of mission 3.
ReplyDeleteI took a variation of this list against Erich's self dubbed "Dream Crusher" list, that includes, among other things, Straken, an Inquisator lord with a hood and mystics, a callidus assasin, a demolisher, a eradicator, and two vendettas, and I drew.
I cost this unit:
ReplyDelete5 Honor Guard w/ Jump Packs, Sanguinary Novitiate,
2 Lightning Claw/ Storm Shield
1 Meltagun
as 245.
Is it 2 with LC and SS or 2 with LC and 1 with SS?
Homer
Yup, 245 is what it is. Does the Army Builder file have a glitch, Mahu?
ReplyDeleteNo, it is more human error.
ReplyDeleteHmmm, at that point I might as well swap the DC and DC Dread for Terminators, Corbulo, and a Furioso Dreadnought.
Hmm, will have to think about this.